Create meetup in Tokyochevron_right
Select a place on the map to change the location.
I want to meet
Verified required?
want to meet at fmd_good Brew Lab
want to meet at fmd_good Vintage Avenue
want to meet at fmd_good Local House
explore Tokyo Guides
bar_chart Trends in Tokyo
How appropriate is it for a tourist to tell off another tourist?
I have been reading a lot on the threads here about bad tourist behavior. There seem to be a few camps - [A] "That sucks! How vile! The obnoxious Karens/Chinese buses/Indian squatters/gropey Aussies/chundering Brits/shitty French are the worst!", [B] "the Japanese government should be doing more to fix/combat this!", [C] "but Japanese ojiis and obaas are rude and poorly behaved in public too, so it's hypocritical to fixate on tourists!" and [D] "I told Bad Tourist X to stop doing Y, and was told to fuck off," which leads to more [A] and [B], but also [E]... "some tourists think they're so much better than others just because they've been to Japan a few times. You do you!"
I count myself among the first clause of E - have been to Japan many times as a tourist, each time taking care to improve my Japanese and my knowledge of customs and history so I can be more informed. It dismays me when I see poor behavior from tourists who are either naive (jaywalking when everyone else is waiting at the crosswalk), willfully ignorant (taking photos when there are obvious signs saying no photos, or speaking in loud voices over short distances), or plain disrespectful (leaving trash behind - littering is universally offensive!). I've gently told off a few Chinese tourists for being bumblekins in the combini, e.g. "that's a bit loud" or "you're blocking the way, could you move?" and they are usually surprised and immediately correct their behavior once they realize I'm not Japanese (though I dress so), that I speak Mandarin, and that it's slightly American-accented. (The ABC halo still has some kind of clout with older Chinese tourists.)
I've thankfully never had a violent interaction in some of the ways people have here, either seeing people chase down geishas in Kyoto or behave terribly in drunk areas. And I'm not deluded - there are just some dynamics as a little lady of Asian descent that I won't come out winning: confronting a big blond with a higher alcohol tolerance than me, or "OMAE"ing some white guy who seems intent on hitting on Japanese chicks in Shibuya. But sometimes I itch for a moment where I can chew out some punk teen for putting their leg up on the subway seat, a Carol for taking pics of uniformed schoolchildren, or an Indian family for leaving food trash on the train. I am aware that the Japanese response seems to be either 1. side-eye and gossip in media res, or the other extreme: 2. park themselves at the Hachiko statue with home-made signs about what proper tourist behavior looks like. (to me, are roundabout solutions, given that the problematic tourist is unlikely to pick up on the side-eye/whispery context since they do not possess Japanese-level skills of Reading the Room, and 2. don't read signs). To me, directly addressing the issue in a neutral and educative way seems to be effective.
Is the general sentiment that tourists telling off other tourists helpful, or would I just be seen as a 3rd culture Karen? Would the proper response to act Nihonjin as possible, give the side-eye, gossip about how tacky/smelly/odious/dirty/littering the person is to my travel partner? Should I aim to be more understanding that less wealthy/educated people now have purchasing power, and that they will necessarily bring their own customs and ignorances with them and learn to accept it? Is my sense of vigilantism just a naive relic of 90s Global Big Brother Americanism, and unwelcome in the current age of liberal individualism, where it is looked poorly upon to tell an individual anything other than, "you do you"?
fwiw i think you're overestimating how much the average tourist cares about being "educated" by another tourist. the people leaving trash on trains or taking photos where they shouldnt usually know its wrong, they just dont care. a lecture from someone who also doesnt live here isnt going to be the thing that changes their mind
ive watched this play out at shibuya crossing plenty of times. someone tries to be the hero and tell a group of drunk guys to stop shouting, and it just escalates into a bigger scene. the japanese staff at the nearby conbini or the station attendant will handle it if it gets bad enough, thats literally their job
the one exception i can think of is if you actually see someone about to do something dangerous, like step into traffic without looking or walk into a bike lane. that kind of intervention is just basic human decency anywhere. but for stuff like loud voices or blocking sidewalks? i think you gotta accept that tokyo is a city of 14 million people and some of them are gonna be annoying regardless of nationality
honestly i think youre overthinking it a bit. theres a difference between being helpful and being a vigilante. telling someone theyre blocking the combini aisle is totally fine, thats just basic human decency. but going up to strangers on the train to lecture them about their feet? thats gonna get you nowhere fast, especially as a tourist yourself
the japanese approach of ignoring it isnt just about politeness, its also practical. most of the time those people are only here for a week and will be gone before you finish your sentence. saving your energy for your own trip makes more sense. i see people do dumb stuff in shinjuku every single day and i just keep walking
if you really feel the need to say something, keep it to things that directly affect you or others right now. like someone blocking the escalator or being loud on the train at 11pm. but the whole "educating tourists about japanese culture" angle comes off a bit preachy even if your intentions are good. most people figure it out through trial and error or they dont and thats their problem
You've put a lot of thought into this, and I think the real question is less about whether you should speak up and more about who you are to that person. A Japanese person calling out bad behavior has a certain cultural weight behind it. A foreigner doing it, even one who speaks Mandarin or knows the customs, is just another tourist with an opinion.
The combini aisle thing works because its a universal "excuse me" moment. Nobody owns the space in a convenience store. But telling a family off for leaving trash on the train? Youre not their parent, youre not a conductor, and you have no authority. Most people who drop trash know its wrong. They just dont care. A lecture from a stranger doesnt change that, it just makes the rest of the carriage uncomfortable.
I live in Shinjuku and I see tourists doing stupid stuff every single day. The ones who actually learn are the ones who get gently corrected by staff or who watch what everyone else is doing. The ones who dont learn were never going to listen to you anyway. Save your energy for enjoying your trip.
load 3 more replies
Where can I find crispy, pan-fried bacon similar to a certain international style?
if u have a costco membership the kirkland thick cut is the move, 4 packs of 500g for around 2500 yen and it crisps up proper in a cold pan. for smaller runs, precce in azabudai hills & the basement at isetan shinjuku both carry imported US & danish brands in the chilled case, just read the label for "thick cut" or "smoked" and not "loin". also worth knowing japanese bacon is often wet-cured so pat it dry before frying or it steams instead of crisping
kaldi coffee farm is hit or miss but their smoked bacon from denmark shows up pretty regular, the 200g pack runs about 600 yen. what actually works better for me is asking the butcher counter at peacock or life to slice the block bacon thick, like 5mm, they do it for free and it crisps way better than the pre-packed stuff. also fwiw cheap bacon crisps faster, the fatty supermarket kind at 300 yen a pack works fine if u cook it from cold in a dry pan and pour off the fat as it renders.
tbh the gyomu super store brand bacon is surprisingly decent for crisping up, its not thick cut but if you cook it low and slow it gets pretty crunchy. the key is the dry cure vs wet cure thing, wet cure steams. also check hanamasa if you have one nearby, they sell big packs of american style bacon thats actually smoked and firm.