Create meetup in Tokyochevron_right
Select a place on the map to change the location.
I want to meet
Verified required?
want to meet at fmd_good Wildlife Reserve
want to meet at fmd_good Market Deli
explore Tokyo Guides
bar_chart Trends in Tokyo
Dealing with massive professional fallout for a silly little "Osaka style" joking rejoinder to an extremely nasty (racist? not even sure) snub during a meeting with a Tokyo client company
I went to Tokyo Monday morning for an overnight trip to meet up with a bunch of client companies. These are all high end tour and cultural experience providers catering to rich overseas tourists of the level who come here and spend 200,000 to 800,00 yen on a single-day or two-day cultural experience package.
I've been doing some variety of this for the past fourteen years, but I've been working with this particular marketing company since just after the pandemic ended. I've probably done over two thousand of these meets and interviews before, to the point that most of it is automatic at this point, and the vast majority of everyone I've interacted with, Japanese or foreign, young or old, has basically been decent and human and professional. I could tell some weird one-off stories about isolated crazy people but I don't think they're relevant to this story, and I never had any trouble just social skills-ing my way through them, even if it was a little awkward.
This morning (technically yesterday morning, because I've spent so long stewing on this and talking to friends and colleagues about it, and because tomorrow is my day off -- that's 個人事業主 work for you -- I'm having a little wine thinking about), I went to an office to meet with a client of my client. I got there about 45 minutes early so I went to the konbini outside the station near their office and used the toilet before buying an iced coffee.
There was someone in the toilet ahead of me (a tiny little sliding door toilet closet with no sink inside, but one outside the door with soap and a mirror), and when the person came out we did the usual awkward polite nod and I went in and he came out. I noticed he didn't wash his hands and vaguely thought it was was gross in passing, but immediately forgot about it because, I don't have to explain this do I?, it happens all the time. He was in full salaryman regalia: slacks, a pressed white shirt that was now wrinkly from the day's work, and sweaty from what I automatically assumed was because he was a few minutes inside a public konbini toilet. But I did notice his particular shirt and slacks seemed very nice and well-fitting (I'm kind of into fashion and clothes, even just for work, American people always make fun of me for it). And he had a haircut and dye job that looked expensive and very clean.
Let me just stress, and I honestly never care, but it's the reality: I stepped aside and gave him a little dip of the head as he came out, and he walked right past the sink and me and into the konbini aisle and did the little half-rushed shuffle up and around the corner of the konbini shelves and left. I went in, did my business, came out, washed with soap and water (not because I'm a great person but because I hate the way walking around in polluted air with sweaty skin makes my skin feel and I welcome any opportunity to get a little chance to refresh. I even always splash my face and rub it down it with my handkerchief, which I don't think eliminates germs or bacteria but it certainly feels better.
When I got to my client company's office and did the whole meet and greet and self-introduction and exchange of business cards, right at the beginning, I recognized that the guy was there. It was nothing. I barely recognized him and he didn't seem to recognize me. He was seated in the center of the table, two seats from the the usual "top seat" at the corner. I didn't think anything of it, but I noticed him.
The guy that started doing all of the talking did a thing that is honestly obnoxiously but I am used to by this point. I guess he probably meant well, but he was constantly trying to "translate" very basic concepts and exchanges between the rest of the group and me, despite the fact that we were all communicating in fluent normal Japanese with no issues. Worst of all, he couldn't even really speak English, which would have been completely fine except he clearly had for whatever reason decided he was appointed the foreigner liaison of the group. And some of his translations weren't even words. And on top of all that, every time he got stumped and had to think, which was often, he would say 「海外は何というかな?」. Not 英語, but 海外.
I get through it all. I get everything I need for the interview. So far it's a kind of weird awkward one, but nothing I haven't experienced before and wouldn't even register as a story to my wife or friends.
We all get up to leave, do the usual pleasantries, bow multiple times, say a wide variety of expressions about hoping the future is good for each other and our relationship continues kindly. Then our ambassador says, 「おー、海外ではShake Hands！Shake Handsしましょう!」 and starts making hand-shaking gestures at everyone.
I grimace inside but give polite smiling handshakes to everyone. Then we get to to the dude I watched run away from a bathroom stall without washing his hands. I shake his hand too. As soon as I move on to the next person, I see him turn to the previous guy and ask him for alcohol wipes. As I am still going on with my handshakes, I watch him get deferentially handed an alcohol wipe and diligently scrub across the surfaces of his palms and fingers and into the crevices and little corners of webbing between his fingers and across his fingernails.
After the handshakes with the last three guys, I was feeling kind of annoyed, but wanted to keep up a smile. And also, I've had hundreds of experiences of turning a little awkward situation like this into rapport, so I did what for me in my career so far has always been a completely safe poke. I said:
すみません、こっちも手口ふきもらってええっすか？
Did kind of a smiley jokey face.
The guy with the pack of wipes goes:
えっ、汚れたのですか？
I laugh like it's a joke.
いや汚れとかはもちろんわからんけど、何となく変な潔癖症やから。
And laugh at that too.
And the guy looks me in the face and says,
特に怪しむきっかけがないのであれば、必要ないのでしょうか。
So I just laugh again, and say,
まあみんな忙しいし、忙しい中でトイレするとて洗わんやつもしゃあないから、一応念のためですね!
The room goes dead silent, and I just get quietly shuffled out. It was already pretty fucking uncomfortable, but I just went to the elevator, moved on did my next meeting, and got on a train home after that.
When I got back to Osaka, after responding to several panicked messages on the train from the in-between company, I had to spend three hours on the phone repeating the whole story several times and explaining that I never singled the guy out or even looked at him while I was saying it. They never even mentioned how or why I could have known who I was offending, but just said I had offended the son of the company president.
No one even paused to think for a second or ask me anything about mister precious crybaby scrubbing every geometric surface of his filthy little bathroom hands just because his own stupid dancing monkey of a 後輩 decided to make us all shake hands because its what they do in 海外, despite neither me nor him nor anyone besides the court jester there wanting to do it.
Also no one addressed the obviousness of asking for a wipe after someone else has already asked for one and wiped their hands after the same handshake. But as I've heard multiple times since I've gotten backed and talked to my wife and about a half dozen friends, "It's a Tokyo company" and apparently, at least to Osakans, the lack of sense of humor is not really the issue, but the lack of underlying sense of basic human egalitarian existence or the ridiculousness of pompousness that makes "Osaka humor" (to me it's just basic normal human humor anywhere) possible.
, , , , , , , , , , , , ,
EDIT UPDATE: Woke up this morning to a request for an early lunchtime online meeting. Was kind of dreading it since the last conversation I had yesterday was still me having to defend myself, with no sympathy, and I didn't get any indication one way or another about what they wanted in the meeting.
The hand-wipe guy and "Shake hands" guy, along with a sales manager from the company I hadn't met, all apologized to me. They were pretty vague about what exactly they were apologizing for, but the hand-wipe guy seemed unhappy to have to do it, so I'm guessing that one way or another it came down to him scrubbing his hands with an alcohol wipe immediately after shaking my hand right in front of me, despite his side being the ones to pressure the interaction into happening in the first place.
This was all I focused on (but focused on repeatedly) in my defense yesterday, as a very obvious unprovoked insult. I didn't try to defend or substantiate the joke, just said it was an awkward uncomfortable nervous reaction to being openly insulted (which is what it was, minus of course the fact that the dude who is grossed out by having to touch a foreigner's literally factually does not wash his hands after shitting, though I didn't get into that).
Anyway, it seems to have worked. Also to my surprise, in terms of the marketing and coverage deal, everything is moving forward without a hiccup. I honestly kind of don't want to even work with them anymore, but now that they have admitted fault I feel like it would be going down to their level to pull out halfway through the deal. So I'm going to finish this contract (I don't have to see those particular guys again anyway) and then remove myself from any future assignments with the company.
ngl the apology is the most surprising part of this whole thing. usually in these situations the tokyo company doubles down and you just have to eat it. sounds like someone above the hand-wipe guy realized how bad it looked on paper.
the real lesson here is that "osaka style" jokes work great in osaka but up in tokyo you gotta read the room way harder. i've had similar moments where a light jab that would get laughs in tenma or shinsaibashi got me stone cold stares in minato-ku. the handshake thing is such a classic tokyo flex too, like they're showing off how "international" they are while being super weird about actually touching a foreigner.
fwiw i think bowing out after this contract is the right call. you dont need clients that make you feel like you're walking on eggshells. there's plenty of companies that actually get the humor without needing a formal apology meeting first.
honestly this whole thing is such a tokyo moment it hurts. i've lived in osaka for about 8 years and the way people handle awkwardness up there vs down here is night and day. in osaka someone woulda just laughed it off or fired back with a joke, not called a whole emergency meeting about it.
the fact that they apologized but were vague about it tells me their real issue was the power dynamic not the joke itself. son of the president probably never had someone call him out indirectly like that, even if you didnt mean to. you handled it better than most would, especially keeping your cool through three hours of phone defense.
for future contracts i'd just keep a mental note that some tokyo clients treat handshake rituals like sacred ceremonies. you can usually suss out which ones are gonna be stiff by how they react to the first casual joke you drop. saves a lot of grief later.
Where can I find crispy, pan-fried bacon similar to a certain international style?
if u have a costco membership the kirkland thick cut is the move, 4 packs of 500g for around 2500 yen and it crisps up proper in a cold pan. for smaller runs, precce in azabudai hills & the basement at isetan shinjuku both carry imported US & danish brands in the chilled case, just read the label for "thick cut" or "smoked" and not "loin". also worth knowing japanese bacon is often wet-cured so pat it dry before frying or it steams instead of crisping
kaldi coffee farm is hit or miss but their smoked bacon from denmark shows up pretty regular, the 200g pack runs about 600 yen. what actually works better for me is asking the butcher counter at peacock or life to slice the block bacon thick, like 5mm, they do it for free and it crisps way better than the pre-packed stuff. also fwiw cheap bacon crisps faster, the fatty supermarket kind at 300 yen a pack works fine if u cook it from cold in a dry pan and pour off the fat as it renders.
tbh the gyomu super store brand bacon is surprisingly decent for crisping up, its not thick cut but if you cook it low and slow it gets pretty crunchy. the key is the dry cure vs wet cure thing, wet cure steams. also check hanamasa if you have one nearby, they sell big packs of american style bacon thats actually smoked and firm.
load 2 more replies